Discussion:
Most efficient way to use osg::DrawElementsUInt?
Jesper D. Thomsen
2009-03-26 10:27:58 UTC
Permalink
Hi all, I'm developing an application where I have to create up to 1000 osg:geometry objects per frame during certain interaction modes.
I'm using osg::DrawElementsUInt push_back() to define the geometry primitive sets, and this push_back() seems to be the primary bottleneck for my applications graphical performance. Is there a more efficient way to define the primitive sets than to fill a osg::DrawElementsUInt by push_back and add it to the geometry?

This is currently bringing me down to about 1 second per frame, which is kind of a roadblock.

regards,

Jesper D. Thomsen
Peter Hrenka
2009-03-26 11:00:08 UTC
Permalink
Hi Jesper,

Jesper D. Thomsen schrieb:
> Hi all, I'm developing an application where I have to create up to 1000
> osg:geometry objects per frame during certain interaction modes.
> I'm using osg::DrawElementsUInt push_back() to define the geometry
> primitive sets, and this push_back() seems to be the primary bottleneck
> for my applications graphical performance. Is there a more efficient way
> to define the primitive sets than to fill a osg::DrawElementsUInt by
> push_back and add it to the geometry?
>
> This is currently bringing me down to about 1 second per frame, which is
> kind of a roadblock.

You can use reserve() to pre-allocate the needed memory.
After that push_back() will not perform any reallocations/copies
until the limit is reached.

> regards,
>
>
> Jesper D. Thomsen
>

Cheers,

Peter
--
Vorstand/Board of Management:
Dr. Bernd Finkbeiner, Dr. Roland Niemeier,
Dr. Arno Steitz, Dr. Ingrid Zech
Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats/
Chairman of the Supervisory Board:
Michel Lepert
Sitz/Registered Office: Tuebingen
Registergericht/Registration Court: Stuttgart
Registernummer/Commercial Register No.: HRB 382196
Jesper D. Thomsen
2009-03-26 11:42:51 UTC
Permalink
Hi, and thank you.

I naturally tried to use reserve() (but thanks for suggesting it) and this of course helped somewhat, but it still seems to be the primary bottleneck. I've changed most of the rest of the per-frame geometry generation code to use static arrays rather than std::vector and this caused a major speedup (factor 10 or more) of my own part of the code, but I'm still stuck with the push_backs on osg::DrawElementsUInt.
Maybe there's just no faster way to do it, or maybe I'm just using OSG in a somewhat un-intended way.

Jesper D. Thomsen

________________________________________
From: osg-users-bounces-***@public.gmane.org [osg-users-bounces-***@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Peter Hrenka [p.hrenka-Pt+Xe7GJXK+P2YhJcF5u+nqWYbMAw+***@public.gmane.org]
Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 12:00 PM
To: OpenSceneGraph Users
Subject: Re: [osg-users] Most efficient way to use osg::DrawElementsUInt?

Hi Jesper,

Jesper D. Thomsen schrieb:
> Hi all, I'm developing an application where I have to create up to 1000
> osg:geometry objects per frame during certain interaction modes.
> I'm using osg::DrawElementsUInt push_back() to define the geometry
> primitive sets, and this push_back() seems to be the primary bottleneck
> for my applications graphical performance. Is there a more efficient way
> to define the primitive sets than to fill a osg::DrawElementsUInt by
> push_back and add it to the geometry?
>
> This is currently bringing me down to about 1 second per frame, which is
> kind of a roadblock.

You can use reserve() to pre-allocate the needed memory.
After that push_back() will not perform any reallocations/copies
until the limit is reached.

> regards,
>
>
> Jesper D. Thomsen
>

Cheers,

Peter
--
Vorstand/Board of Management:
Dr. Bernd Finkbeiner, Dr. Roland Niemeier,
Dr. Arno Steitz, Dr. Ingrid Zech
Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats/
Chairman of the Supervisory Board:
Michel Lepert
Sitz/Registered Office: Tuebingen
Registergericht/Registration Court: Stuttgart
Registernummer/Commercial Register No.: HRB 382196
Peter Hrenka
2009-03-26 12:15:38 UTC
Permalink
Hi Jesper,

Jesper D. Thomsen schrieb:
> Hi, and thank you.
>
> I naturally tried to use reserve() (but thanks for suggesting it) and this of course helped somewhat, but it still seems to be the primary bottleneck. I've changed most of the rest of the per-frame geometry generation code to use static arrays rather than std::vector and this caused a major speedup (factor 10 or more) of my own part of the code, but I'm still stuck with the push_backs on osg::DrawElementsUInt.
> Maybe there's just no faster way to do it, or maybe I'm just using OSG in a somewhat un-intended way.
>
> Jesper D. Thomsen

Just some more ideas/comments:

Are you testing a release build? Debug-Verions (especially on Windows)
are known to have dramatically slower implementations.

What profiling tool are you using? Sometimes the output is misleading
and can point you in the wrong direction. As from my experience
push_back() on an pre-reserved() vector should not be a performace issue.

If you can spare the memory you could also try swap(), implementing
your own double-buffering for your osg::DrawElements.

Cheers,

Peter


> ________________________________________
> From: osg-users-bounces-***@public.gmane.org [osg-users-bounces-***@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Peter Hrenka [p.hrenka-Pt+Xe7GJXK+P2YhJcF5u+nqWYbMAw+***@public.gmane.org]
> Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 12:00 PM
> To: OpenSceneGraph Users
> Subject: Re: [osg-users] Most efficient way to use osg::DrawElementsUInt?
>
> Hi Jesper,
>
> Jesper D. Thomsen schrieb:
>> Hi all, I'm developing an application where I have to create up to 1000
>> osg:geometry objects per frame during certain interaction modes.
>> I'm using osg::DrawElementsUInt push_back() to define the geometry
>> primitive sets, and this push_back() seems to be the primary bottleneck
>> for my applications graphical performance. Is there a more efficient way
>> to define the primitive sets than to fill a osg::DrawElementsUInt by
>> push_back and add it to the geometry?
>>
>> This is currently bringing me down to about 1 second per frame, which is
>> kind of a roadblock.
>
> You can use reserve() to pre-allocate the needed memory.
> After that push_back() will not perform any reallocations/copies
> until the limit is reached.
>
>> regards,
>>
>>
>> Jesper D. Thomsen
>>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Peter

--
Vorstand/Board of Management:
Dr. Bernd Finkbeiner, Dr. Roland Niemeier,
Dr. Arno Steitz, Dr. Ingrid Zech
Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats/
Chairman of the Supervisory Board:
Michel Lepert
Sitz/Registered Office: Tuebingen
Registergericht/Registration Court: Stuttgart
Registernummer/Commercial Register No.: HRB 382196
Tomlinson, Gordon
2009-03-26 12:22:15 UTC
Permalink
FYI

"push_back() on an pre-reserved() vector/container should not be a
performance issue."

Under debug in visual studio, if you are storing anything other than a
pointer, then a push_back etc will still incure a 'new and a copy' and
this can get expensive if your doing a lot of them,
under release this handled more efficiently



Gordon
Product Manager 3d
__________________________________________________________
Gordon Tomlinson
Email : gtomlinson @ overwatch.textron.com
__________________________________________________________


-----Original Message-----
From: osg-users-bounces-***@public.gmane.org
[mailto:osg-users-bounces-***@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Peter
Hrenka
Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 8:16 AM
To: OpenSceneGraph Users
Subject: Re: [osg-users] Most efficient way to use
osg::DrawElementsUInt?

Hi Jesper,

Jesper D. Thomsen schrieb:
> Hi, and thank you.
>
> I naturally tried to use reserve() (but thanks for suggesting it) and
this of course helped somewhat, but it still seems to be the primary
bottleneck. I've changed most of the rest of the per-frame geometry
generation code to use static arrays rather than std::vector and this
caused a major speedup (factor 10 or more) of my own part of the code,
but I'm still stuck with the push_backs on osg::DrawElementsUInt.
> Maybe there's just no faster way to do it, or maybe I'm just using OSG
in a somewhat un-intended way.
>
> Jesper D. Thomsen

Just some more ideas/comments:

Are you testing a release build? Debug-Verions (especially on Windows)
are known to have dramatically slower implementations.

What profiling tool are you using? Sometimes the output is misleading
and can point you in the wrong direction. As from my experience
push_back() on an pre-reserved() vector should not be a performace
issue.

If you can spare the memory you could also try swap(), implementing your
own double-buffering for your osg::DrawElements.

Cheers,

Peter


> ________________________________________
> From: osg-users-bounces-***@public.gmane.org
> [osg-users-bounces-***@public.gmane.org] On Behalf Of Peter Hrenka

> [p.hrenka-Pt+Xe7GJXK+P2YhJcF5u+nqWYbMAw+***@public.gmane.org]
> Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 12:00 PM
> To: OpenSceneGraph Users
> Subject: Re: [osg-users] Most efficient way to use
osg::DrawElementsUInt?
>
> Hi Jesper,
>
> Jesper D. Thomsen schrieb:
>> Hi all, I'm developing an application where I have to create up to
>> 1000 osg:geometry objects per frame during certain interaction modes.
>> I'm using osg::DrawElementsUInt push_back() to define the geometry
>> primitive sets, and this push_back() seems to be the primary
>> bottleneck for my applications graphical performance. Is there a more

>> efficient way to define the primitive sets than to fill a
>> osg::DrawElementsUInt by push_back and add it to the geometry?
>>
>> This is currently bringing me down to about 1 second per frame, which

>> is kind of a roadblock.
>
> You can use reserve() to pre-allocate the needed memory.
> After that push_back() will not perform any reallocations/copies until

> the limit is reached.
>
>> regards,
>>
>>
>> Jesper D. Thomsen
>>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Peter

--
Vorstand/Board of Management:
Dr. Bernd Finkbeiner, Dr. Roland Niemeier, Dr. Arno Steitz, Dr. Ingrid
Zech Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats/ Chairman of the Supervisory Board:
Michel Lepert
Sitz/Registered Office: Tuebingen
Registergericht/Registration Court: Stuttgart Registernummer/Commercial
Register No.: HRB 382196
Brian R Hill
2009-03-26 12:56:52 UTC
Permalink
Jesper,

I've encountered similar issues when managing 1000's of particle systems
(bullet splashes in the water). The problem is the constant
allocating/deallocation of memory when you create new primitive sets and
then remove them. I ended up caching the primitive sets when the particle
system ended and then reusing them. This along with using reserve() to
preallocate the required number of elements, resize(0) to reset the element
counter - without releasing the memory, and the primitive set setCount()
method to adjust the number of prims being drawn each time the particle
system was updated.

This only works of the things you're creating all similar.

It's comparable to what you're doing with the static memory - but within
the osg framework.

Brian


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-----osg-users-***@lists.openscenegraph.org wrote: -----


To: "OpenSceneGraph Users" <osg-***@lists.openscenegraph.org>
From: "Tomlinson, Gordon" <***@overwatch.textron.com>
Sent by: osg-users-***@lists.openscenegraph.org
Date: 03/26/2009 08:22AM
Subject: Re: [osg-users] Most efficient way to use osg::DrawElementsUInt?

FYI

"push_back() on an pre-reserved() vector/container should not be a
performance issue."

Under debug in visual studio, if you are storing anything other than a
pointer, then a push_back etc will still incure a 'new and a copy' and
this can get expensive if your doing a lot of them,
under release this handled more efficiently



Gordon
Product Manager 3d
__________________________________________________________
Gordon Tomlinson
Email : gtomlinson @ overwatch.textron.com
__________________________________________________________


-----Original Message-----
From: osg-users-***@lists.openscenegraph.org
[mailto:osg-users-***@lists.openscenegraph.org] On Behalf Of Peter
Hrenka
Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 8:16 AM
To: OpenSceneGraph Users
Subject: Re: [osg-users] Most efficient way to use
osg::DrawElementsUInt?

Hi Jesper,

Jesper D. Thomsen schrieb:
> Hi, and thank you.
>
> I naturally tried to use reserve() (but thanks for suggesting it) and
this of course helped somewhat, but it still seems to be the primary
bottleneck. I've changed most of the rest of the per-frame geometry
generation code to use static arrays rather than std::vector and this
caused a major speedup (factor 10 or more) of my own part of the code,
but I'm still stuck with the push_backs on osg::DrawElementsUInt.
> Maybe there's just no faster way to do it, or maybe I'm just using OSG
in a somewhat un-intended way.
>
> Jesper D. Thomsen

Just some more ideas/comments:

Are you testing a release build? Debug-Verions (especially on Windows)
are known to have dramatically slower implementations.

What profiling tool are you using? Sometimes the output is misleading
and can point you in the wrong direction. As from my experience
push_back() on an pre-reserved() vector should not be a performace
issue.

If you can spare the memory you could also try swap(), implementing your
own double-buffering for your osg::DrawElements.

Cheers,

Peter


> ________________________________________
> From: osg-users-***@lists.openscenegraph.org
> [osg-users-***@lists.openscenegraph.org] On Behalf Of Peter Hrenka

> [***@science-computing.de]
> Sent: Thursday, March 26, 2009 12:00 PM
> To: OpenSceneGraph Users
> Subject: Re: [osg-users] Most efficient way to use
osg::DrawElementsUInt?
>
> Hi Jesper,
>
> Jesper D. Thomsen schrieb:
>> Hi all, I'm developing an application where I have to create up to
>> 1000 osg:geometry objects per frame during certain interaction modes.
>> I'm using osg::DrawElementsUInt push_back() to define the geometry
>> primitive sets, and this push_back() seems to be the primary
>> bottleneck for my applications graphical performance. Is there a more

>> efficient way to define the primitive sets than to fill a
>> osg::DrawElementsUInt by push_back and add it to the geometry?
>>
>> This is currently bringing me down to about 1 second per frame, which

>> is kind of a roadblock.
>
> You can use reserve() to pre-allocate the needed memory.
> After that push_back() will not perform any reallocations/copies until

> the limit is reached.
>
>> regards,
>>
>>
>> Jesper D. Thomsen
>>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Peter

--
Vorstand/Board of Management:
Dr. Bernd Finkbeiner, Dr. Roland Niemeier, Dr. Arno Steitz, Dr. Ingrid
Zech Vorsitzender des Aufsichtsrats/ Chairman of the Supervisory Board:
Michel Lepert
Sitz/Registered Office: Tuebingen
Registergericht/Registration Court: Stuttgart Registernummer/Commercial
Register No.: HRB 382196


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Robert Osfield
2009-03-26 13:09:29 UTC
Permalink
Hi Jasper,

Adding lots of objects in any one frame can easily become a bottleneck
unless you are very careful about it. I wouldn't expect the push_back on a
DrawElementsUInt to be the primary bottleneck. Make sure you do all your
benchmarking in release mode as this makes a huge difference.

As to what is your best route forward will depend entirely on what you are
actually trying to do in your application, so perhaps you can explain at a
high level what these geometries represent and why that have to be
introduced on mass on particular frames. Perhaps then others will be able
to recommend what the best course of action is to take.

Robert.


2009/3/26 Jesper D. Thomsen <jdt-UT1GVW5Nl3rc+***@public.gmane.org>

> Hi all, I'm developing an application where I have to create up to 1000
> osg:geometry objects per frame during certain interaction modes.
> I'm using osg::DrawElementsUInt push_back() to define the geometry
> primitive sets, and this push_back() seems to be the primary bottleneck for
> my applications graphical performance. Is there a more efficient way to
> define the primitive sets than to fill a osg::DrawElementsUInt by push_back
> and add it to the geometry?
>
> This is currently bringing me down to about 1 second per frame, which is
> kind of a roadblock.
>
> regards,
>
>
> Jesper D. Thomsen
>
> * *
>
> _______________________________________________
> osg-users mailing list
> osg-users-***@public.gmane.org
> http://lists.openscenegraph.org/listinfo.cgi/osg-users-openscenegraph.org
>
>
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